Wednesday, October 26, 2005

Oops, they did it again, or: No Maus?

After all the blogosphere grumbling over the inclusion of Watchmen on Time's Top 100 Novels (1923-Present), the mag ups the ante and drops a list of The All Time Top Ten Graphic Novels.
They are (in alphabetical order):
  1. Berlin: City of Stones (Lutes)
  2. Blankets (Thompson)
  3. Bone (Smith)
  4. Boulevard of Broken Dreams (Deitch)
  5. The Dark Knight Returns (Miller)
  6. David Boring (Clowes)
  7. Ed the Happy Clown (Brown)
  8. Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth (Ware)
  9. Palomar: The Heartbreak Soup Stories (Hernandez)
  10. Watchmen (Moore/Gibbons)

Let the grousing begin.


At 4:44 AM, Anonymous Nayiri's Humble Graphic Novel Estudiante said...

Ooooh Nayiri's going to be mad. She hates Blankets. And where's The Sandman? Seriously folks.

Personally, I thought Jimmy Corrigan was one of the most atrociously useless things I've ever read. For the record: the story was boring and the art was ugly. Take that, comic bookians.

At 6:51 AM, Blogger girish said...

wow, i have huge issues with this list.
don't know where to begin ranting, so i shan't.
but i much prefer this comics journal list.
And my all-time fave comixbook is probably Jaime Hernandez's LOCAS.

At 7:17 AM, Anonymous Nayiri said...

Oh my effing goodness, I think I just had a coronary thrombosis.

At 8:25 AM, Blogger Dashiell said...

if you don't like "blankets" you have no soul.

calling the art on "jimmy corrigan" ugly is just silly.

otherwise, the list is just a mess.

At 9:54 AM, Anonymous Marcella said...

Unless you're Helen Keller, then yes, yes you can call the art in Jimmy Corrigan ugly. So the guy draws a whole lot of buildings and chose an unattractive main character. How groundbreaking. Not only is it ugly, I'll raise you an obnoxious, a pointless, and an endorsed by Dave Eggers ack gag vomit.

At 10:11 AM, Blogger Dashiell said...

oh i hate dave eggers as much as the next person does (seriously, a pirate store he opens? fuck him), but it's a story about an unattractive man, so i guess, yeah, he's unattractive. if you can't really get into the story, well probably you might not cause you're a girl and only care about aesthetic beauty in people, cause you know, girls are shallow like that. but the emotions ware conveys with his reserved line work is astounding. not everyone can enjoy minimalistic beauty -- that's probably why Michael Turner is so popular.
where's From Hell on that top ten list by the way?

At 11:14 AM, Blogger Ben said...

1. Why don't I throw more fuel on the fire and link to Time's 25 Graphic Novels, 25 Years. According to the same Time critic who created that all-time-top-ten list, these 25 books create the foundation for "a basic graphic literature library." Thoughts?

2. And while we're on the topic, smarty pantses, why doesn't someone post his/her all-time top ten list.

At 11:58 AM, Blogger girish said...

Okay, that 25-list could be a lot worse.
My personal idiosyncrasies might lean towards:
--substituting "32 Stories" for "Summer Blonde" (it's lo-fi but more interesting to me aesthetically)
--Seth's "It's A Good Life, If You Don't Weaken" needs to be in there
--substitute "Palomar" with Jaime. Last year, I coughed up to buy all 20 volumes of the collected Love and Rockets. Then discovered I had trouble with Gilbert (sadistic fuck; though I had liked him at first) but Jaime just got better and better.
--"Sandman" is the only thing on it I haven't read. I've been meaning to, though.

At 11:59 AM, Blogger Dashiell said...

I have to say that i haven't read a lot of those books on the list of 25. persepolis is on the top of my to do list though. I will compile a top 10 of what i have read though, but in no particular order:

1. The Sandman - all 10 books, plus endless nights, plus the Death books. Nayiri's very correct in wanting this on the list. To pick just one collection out of the 10 is silly.

2. From Hell

3. Miracleman

4. Maus

5. Jimmy Corrigan

6. Grant Morrison's run on Animal Man

7. The Fixer by Joe Sacco

8. Dogs and Water by Anders Nilsen

9. Batman: The Killing Joke

10. Black Hole

At 12:00 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

Girish -- do you buy your comics at Queen City Bookstore in Buffalo?

At 12:05 PM, Blogger girish said...

Actually, yeah. And Seeley & Kane's.
Dashiell, did I hear you say once you were originally from here?
Whereabouts? Did you go to school here?
I moved here from India, and teach at Canisius College.

At 12:17 PM, Blogger girish said...

And I'm hoping that the proprietor of La Mer Coloree Se Geignant (see links list) will favor us with his choices too.

At 12:18 PM, Blogger girish said...

Never mind, that smartypants move didn't work. I was trying to link to Pullquote En Franglais on which Ben's site had been frenchified on the links list.

At 12:45 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

I grew up in Clarence -- take main st. east past williamsville and you run right into it.
I don't know Seeley and Kane's, will have to check it out, but Queen City's stand at the Walden Flea Market was my haunt every sunday growing up.

At 12:56 PM, Blogger Ben said...

Well, you alls are way more-versed in the ways of the graphic novel. I am playing catch-up like crazy and haven't read large sections of the canon. But here are some of my favorites:

I love--nay luuuurve--Seth's It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken.

The film noir junkie in me is all over Frank Miller's A Dame to Kill For (from the Sin City saga).

I was an obsessive Batman fan as a kid, so Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, and Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth are near and dear.

Nayiri introduced me to Mr. Bendis via Fortune & Glory (which is really funny) and Dash lent me Torso which is just epic and sick (in the best sense of the word).

Uh... Uhhh... What else. Well, Jimmy Corrigan needs finishing. (I'm a huge fan of Ware's aesthetic, but I find that in a graphic novel setting it's really difficult. But maybe that's because I'm a cretin.) One day I will complete Watchmen. (I know-- sacrilege.) I know I need to get Maus read (I've had my friend Dave's copy for, seriously, about three years), ditto Persepolis. Oh and I'm really looking forward to Black Hole. Anything described as Freaks and Geeks as envisioned by David Cronenberg is ace with me.

And with that, I end this nerd transmission.

At 12:59 PM, Anonymous Marcella said...

It's a story with a flaccid, unattractive, boring main character. Yeah, I said flaccid. Only shallow, vapid girls use words like that. Oh, and girls who quote Mae West not ironically.

Also, minimalism in the mighty vortex of Eggersville does not count as anything, as it exists only in that vacuum of suckage that he has created.

Though I agree with putting The Fixer on the list, I also think Box Office Poison is worthy of mention. And where's Andi Watson?

Furthermore, From Hell was utterly tedious. Serial killers are so 1994.

At 1:11 PM, Blogger girish said...

Dashiell, I lused to live two houses away from Queen City Books (my grad-school slum-pad). And yeah, I know Clarence well.
Okay, I've been meaning to ask ever since I became one of Ben's "imaginary friends".
How exactly do all of you know each other?

At 1:23 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

Marcella just showed her true taste in not giving From Hell props. It's possibly Moore's best work and Eddie Cambell's black and white art is spectacular.

Box Office Poison is Reality Bites for comic book geeks, which is fine, but how many people are watching Reality Bites right now saying, man, that was one of the best movies of all time. exactly.

Corrigan is flaccid, unattractive, and boring -- that's the point. maybe if he was played by johnny depp in the movie you might give it more of a look. and i'm glad you used flaccid twice as i'm sure you have a lot of personal experience with that occurrence -- just kidding!

At 1:37 PM, Blogger girish said...

And here's nerd crack Girish style:
Ben, if you got to Cinetrix's site and click on Pullquote En Franglais and then click on the link to your site, you can see your blog (and all the comments) in French.

At 1:39 PM, Blogger girish said...

You may have to click refresh a coupla times along the way, not sure why.

At 2:05 PM, Anonymous Marcella said...

Oh my god, I'm like such a philistine! If by props, you want me to say that From Hell is kind of like brussel sprouts, then I'll say it. Yes, it has great value as a creative work, but it tastes like shit.

And as far as Jimmy Corrigan is concerned, I think your statement about the boring, unattractive bit being the point is an utter cop out. It's like those bad writers who say things like, "Oh, I used stilted terrible Yoda-like sentence structure on purpose because that's my style." Good for Chris Ware if he intentionally made Jimmy Corrigan flaccid. It doesn't make Corrigan an interesting character, it doesn't make all the hipster hype about the book being sooooo groundbreaking any more legitimate, and it doesn't create a story that I think is worth paying any attention to. You know, other than for mocking and loathing.

And as far as your attempted insult with the flaccid bit, kiddo: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You're very smart and clever. I think I just swooned a little bit.

At 2:22 PM, Blogger Ben said...

Well this comic chat became a little spirited, didn't it?

Girish-- we all know each other having gone to college in Boston. I went to Emerson with Nayiri and Marcella, I worked in a video store with Dash who went to BU with Tim... It's a tangled web like that.

At 2:34 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

the main character is all those things, but that's what makes it interesting, it's not some douche doing an autobiography or some dude writing about these hip cats in NYC. it's about an ugly, depressed, sad little man, so, blargh to you and bully for you for being so well adjusted and never having been a sad, depressive, ugly little (whoa!)man!

plus i said "just kidding" cause i was trying to avoid another Bunny debacle. i just wanted to use a flaccid joke.

you can mock and loath all you like, Marci, but when one is responsible for so much flaccidity in the world, one should turn inward and mock and loath themselves (just like Jimmy Corrigan!).

i'm really just messing around, seriously, don't take me serious, for serious!

At 3:19 PM, Anonymous Marcella said...

Oh, you did NOT call me "Marci." That was just low. That's meaner and sillier than the whole me being well-adjusted and never having been sad part.

Note: I as much use for self-involved douche fiction as I do for sad little man fiction, so I'm not discriminating.

And I like how because I hate the book and the character, you assume I have some deep hatred of boring, uggo, depression cases. Quite frankly, I enjoy them. They're fun to poke with sharpened sticks because they don't fight back.

At 3:21 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

maybe someday someone will want to poke YOU with a stick, but probably not. :)

At 5:31 PM, Anonymous Nayiri said...

Jesus Christ on a monkey, I leave you people alone with comic book lists for less than a day and you all go completely bananahead.
1. I HATE "Blankets" and I have no problem admitting it. I mean, shit. I sold it to Nate for $5 and Chinese takeout. And I'm proud of the fact that I'm lacking a soul. It's what makes me me.
2. I think I don't like you, Dashiell. So what if girls only care about aesthetic beauty? IT'S FUCKING COMIC BOOKS THEY HAVE TO AT LEAST LOOK NICE FOR PETE'S SAKE. But I do agree thatn "From Hell" should be on there even though Marcella doesn't like it.
3. Girish, when's your birthday? I'll send you "The Sandman".
4. Ditto Dashiell and Ben for "Persepolis".
5. And so what if Dashiell's getting back on my good side for making a good list? I forgive. But I don't forget.
6. How happy amd I that my prot├ęge mentioned Andi Watson before I had to?
7. And Marcella likes "Box Office Poison" because there's naked people in it. There's nothing wrong with that. (High-five for the Raven reference, by the way.)
All this arguing is making me tired.

At 6:16 PM, Anonymous Marcella said...

Aww, how precious. Dashiell tried to insult my broadly desireableness! So that's why you've been so defensive about Jimmy Corrigan. Is somebody feeling a little extra flaccid, unattractive and boring today?

At 6:23 PM, Blogger Dashiell said...

always my darling, always. i think i stated my similarities to jimmy a few times over the course of the postings. i beat you to the wet noodle punch!

At 7:28 PM, Anonymous Marcella said...

You implied that there were similiarities. I was being generous and assuming you were saying that for some sort of effect, or perhaps to expound upon the book's pathetic theme. And I also assumed that you were behaving like most people do when they talk about how tragic and depressed they are: it's mostly a totally childish act and an attempt to seem deep and artistically tortured when in fact said person is bland and uninteresting and unoriginal. You need to chill out, guy.

At 12:54 AM, Blogger Dashiell said...

i am indeed "bland, uninteresting, and unoriginal." the example being in the quotation marks and the lack of any wit in my non-rebuttal. i don't have time right now for one either as i'm busy cutting myself while writing a haiku about my long lost love who laughed at me when i asked her out in high school.

At 4:34 AM, Blogger Joshua said...

Man, this is a tasty fight!

However, I am super pissed that Ben didn't mention me at all when Girish asked how we know each other.

Whatever, comic books are for dirty, ass-eating fags.

PS: I did really like the of Maus though.

At 4:35 AM, Blogger Joshua said...

god dammit, I hate how the html gets all fucked up. That should have said "I like the movie version of Maus, though"

At 6:11 AM, Anonymous Marcella said...

I liked when they took the movie version of Maus went to the wild, wild west.

At 7:53 AM, Blogger Ben said...

Josh, I'm kind of ashamed to know you, so I try to avoid the topic whenever possible.

At 8:18 AM, Blogger girish said...

Joshua, you know, I thought of that yesterday.
So, how did you guys get your first audience with the President Of Fagistan, anyway?
Nayiri, so sweet of you to offer...

At 8:46 AM, Anonymous Nayiri said...

Girish, contrary to popular belief, I'm nice.

At 9:13 AM, Blogger Ben said...

OK, so I'll 'fess up... Josh is also a graduate of Emerson, so that's how I know him. (And for the record: Nayiri introduced me to him while we were in Marcella's dorm room.)

At 9:33 AM, Blogger Joshua said...

Oh man, Ben, I forgot that. I was doing Devil Voice recordings on Marcella and/or Nayiri's voice mail! But that was years before you "re-met" me and said I was creepy.

At 9:41 AM, Blogger Ben said...

Man, I am never going to live down that creepy comment. (And for the record: Josh is creepy.)

At 9:50 AM, Blogger girish said...

It's pretty cool you all have your own little blog corner here.
I've been trying to get some of my college friends to start blogs but none of the wusses will.

At 11:40 AM, Anonymous Nayiri said...

Oh my god, I REMEMBER those devil voicemails! God, Satan is the best!


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